EP48: Jaylyn Sanchez, Talent Acquisition Lead at Prolucent Health
James Mackey 0:00
Hello and welcome to Talent Acquisition Trends and Strategy. Today we're joined by Jaylyn Sanchez. Jaylyn, welcome to the show!
Jaylyn Sanchez 0:07
Hi, thanks for having me.
James Mackey 0:09
Yeah, I'm pumped for today. Let's just jump into it. Could you share with everybody a little bit about yourself?
Jaylyn Sanchez 0:16
Of course. My name is Jaylyn Sanchez. I am currently in a Talent Acquisition Lead role but I've only been in talent acquisition and recruiting for about 6 years now. Prolucent Health, my company - we are a series A startup. We will be hitting our third year coming in January, and about to enter Series B funding as well. Right now, we are roughly about 64 employees at this time, and we are in the healthcare technology field.
James Mackey 0:50
Nice. So are you in healthcare tech, what are you seeing? I mean, that was I think pretty explosive growth over the past couple of years. Was it correlated at all with what was happening with COVID or not?
Jaylyn Sanchez 1:01
Yes, very much. We actually created a product that's a job board, specifically to help healthcare individuals and companies better streamline and automate their application process so they're not missing out on any full-time permanent employees.
James Mackey 1:19
Oh, that's cool.
Jaylyn Sanchez 1:21
Contingent labor is huge in this field. We actually opened up right before COVID. And then COVID hit and that growth spiked. So yeah, only put ourselves in a good position.
James Mackey 1:33
Yeah. What great timing there.
Jaylyn Sanchez 1:35
Right. Yeah, that's good timing and a lot of work.
James Mackey 1:38
Yes, a lot of hard work has to back it up. Okay, cool. There's a lot we could talk about, and also knowing that it's obviously tied to talent acquisition, I think that there are some things we can talk about there. But just first and foremost we wanted to talk a little bit about the transition from talent acquisition, candidates becoming employees, and that employee journey and trying to set people up for success. Making sure that they can add value to the organization, that they're getting the support that they need, and that ideally, they stay with the company for a little while. Not that we have crazy expectations being that we're in tech.
Ideally, people stay long enough to where they can actually deliver the outcomes that the company wants them to. What have you been experiencing, what's been the evolution? You guys are growing really quickly, and probably hiring fast. What gaps and opportunities have you seen with onboarding and retention?
Jaylyn Sanchez 2:46
I would say the biggest gaps, right in the beginning I came in and within the first 6 months, they wanted 50 positions filled. Of course, putting your recruiter cap on, I'm like, yeah, no problem. But then you start to get into more retention as a piece of it as well. And you don't want to bring on because we were hiring so quickly. People were just starting to get lost in the sauce a little bit.
You're funneling all these people in every onboarding or call, every Monday is having new 20 new faces in it. And then you're having your company meetings once a quarter, and you're realizing almost 10 of those faces have dropped off. So where's the disconnect? Sometimes as recruiters, we have a goal and that's to fill that position, we got the opening, and we need to fill that hole. But I think what we miss in the in-between is making sure that it's also our job to, as you said, make that transition happen right.
So now they're turning from that candidate into the employee and that needs to be a smooth transition. That goes along with every piece of onboarding and every piece of hiring manager communication. None of that communication should stop at all from the time an offer letter gets sent out to the time that the employee actually starts. There should be communication all the way through, whether that's from talent acquisition, HR, a peer that they're going to be working with, or their direct hiring manager.
A big piece that I take on as the lead and talent acquisition here is I will set calendar reminders to ping the hiring managers and ping the peers and tell them - hey, I know your candidate or your employee doesn't start for 2 weeks, but maybe shoot them a congrats email, maybe shoot them - Hey, can't wait to work with you, man. So excited to see you. Let me know if you have any questions. Just keeping that engagement piece there so that they actually show up on the first day. That's key. That's number one, that they show up on the first day, right?
James Mackey 4:46
Yeah, that's something we call a pre-onboarding checklist. Here's all the stuff that we need to do prior to somebody starting whether that is shipping out the computer or doing the touch bases or everything else I think is really important. Something to let them know what to expect in your first week, maybe some key introductions, and it's a balancing act, right? Because people are still working at their other jobs. So it's not like we want to give them a ton to do but I tried to give them a little bit to do - Hey, can you take an hour or so just to have a call maybe once a week? If a candidate gets really annoyed about that, to me...
Jaylyn Sanchez 5:24
It's a little bit of a red flag.
James Mackey 5:27
Yeah, it is. It usually doesn't work out very well when that happens. But I think the biggest miss for startups in general, and even some larger companies are that their onboarding is just terrible. It's also even for the later growth stage. It's so heavily dependent on department and per hiring management basis, there's not a consistent template of what the onboarding experience should look like.
And so one of the things that when I look at Greenhouse and approvals and these types of things, I try to think about - hey, when roles are opened, what is the onboarding plan? Part of that checklist for making a role live and making it a priority for the talent acquisition team - let's have executives, whoever signs off on that opening, should be reviewing the onboarding, 90-day plan to ensure that it's actually robust enough.
There should be some kind of HR-provided template of - Hey, here are all the things you have to hit. This should be XYZ calls, is there a buddy system? What are we doing? And then obviously hiring managers can customize that. But if you don't have a unified template, and you don't have some kind of approval process, that shouldn't happen when an offer is accepted, it should happen when the job is opened. Because going into a job you open, if they don't know how the person's going to be successful around then companies shouldn't hire for that yet, right?
Jaylyn Sanchez 6:59
Because it's gonna be chaos once they actually get in. That is something that we do require, actually, and JazzHR is what we're using right now. And they're really good, during the approval process for a job there's a whole workflow just for the approval process, in regards to what you were speaking to, we need to get the 30-day and the 90-day plan from the hiring managers, we need to make compensation, make sure everything is packaged well and nicely. Okay, who's gonna run this onboarding call, who is going to run the IT call, is Shamar gonna even be available that week, and so on and so forth?
So it is really coordinating and making sure that all the puzzle pieces are matching together before you even jump into talking to people. Because everything could be going well in my conversation with them, but if I don't have my team to back it up, and the workforce of it, from the managers' approval or just even their attention in general. That is key and sometimes in a startup, you have so many things moving at once that in their brain, sometimes I feel it could be like - Oh, well, I'll worry about it when it gets here. But if you worry about it when it gets here it's too late.
There's a lot that we have to do before that in order to make sure that they do not feel like they're on an island alone. And that's a big deal. Especially in the startup right now that is, I would say the biggest hurdle in my new job is just making sure that nobody feels like they're left alone, there's always somebody you can go to. I handle all our 30 60 90-day, 6-month check-ins. And again, I let them know - Hey, this is nothing formal. It's just an open platform for you to be able to say what you need, is there something I can help you with? We are always here.
James Mackey 8:42
Right, right. And another thing just for startups in general, primarily even early growth stage, I'm not saying that founders and co-founders need to be in the weeds building onboarding plans, but they should have an expectation that somebody is reporting to them what onboarding requirements look like. That is to me an executive-level thing that founders and C-levels should be looking at because the quality of the onboarding experience is gonna have a direct impact on the value and the ROI that that employee can bring to the table. And if that process is messed up, or some hiring managers aren't doing it consistently, or whatever else like that, that can be a huge problem.
Jaylyn Sanchez 9:28
It really sets the tone for their career honestly with us if we give them a bad taste in the mouth with just onboarding. Then there might be some issues later on down the road, or maybe some misinformation that would have been good to know in the beginning, but because we didn't have our ducks in a row we missed out on that opportunity to gain that.
James Mackey 9:46
Right. Yeah. So when you think about retention, what do you consider good retention in tech? I have some thoughts that I think a lot of people probably disagree with because I don't have very many expectations, quite honestly.
Jaylyn Sanchez 9:59
Are we thinking of numbers?
James Mackey 10:00
Yeah, if somebody fused two years...
Jaylyn Sanchez 10:05
For me, it's five years. If I someone five years I'm - Wow, I did amazing, really.
James Mackey 10:11
Okay, so that's… good luck. Honestly, if somebody stays at the company a year I'm - Okay, great. I just don't like the whole 2-year average thing. That's in talent acquisition across the board in tech. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for retention, particularly for a few key strategic roles. It's nice to have people that know the company really well. But there's also a ton of value and the creativity and energy that new people bring to the table and the new solutions that they can bring to the table. Sometimes you're gonna have somebody in a role for five years. They're bringing the same stuff to the table.
It's very true.
It's a balancing act. I like the idea of variety, it's nice to have variety. It's nice to have some people yes, we've been there for a while now.
Jaylyn Sanchez 11:00
I guess selfishly I say 5 years for me. These are hard-to-fill roles like a full stack developer, that was a hard role to fill and took some time. So I'm like - Please stay here for 5 years. Please, just all I need is 5. But in the sense of our data scientist or reporting analyst or our data analysts, those I do see or have seen lower retention on. The reason why they sometimes move is that internally there's not fast enough growth for them. And like you said, they're just doing the same thing over and over. You need to know very specific things to do your job but it is very repetitive. So they leave quickly, because there's no other step to take as quickly as they would like to.
James Mackey 11:53
Yeah, I totally get that I. I just think this is another reason why onboarding is so important. In HR typically all of the focus is on retention, right? But then people aren't thinking about - hey, how do we optimize onboarding to accelerate how quickly people can ramp so they can start adding value faster? And so the things I talked about was - okay, yes, retention is important but let's also focus on that front end like what we were just talking about, let's actually make onboarding good.
Let's build process docs around it, let's put the right approvals in place. Because ultimately, if we can have people really add value quickly, retention becomes less important. And as a company, you don't want to be too heavily leveraged on a single person. You need to be able to plug people in so that when individuals leave, it doesn't mess with the momentum in the company. So it's important to be able to get value out of people quickly, to have clearly defined role descriptions, trying to keep those simple, it's hard when you're first doing a startup, because it's like, you need generalists. I do a million things. But when you start to achieve a small level of scale, like around 50 people, at that point you should have specialists. Probably maybe even closer to 30 people.
Defined role descriptions, cut down on what the role descriptions are, and optimized onboarding. And like I tell my clients, you have to be able to run effectively with an average tenure of nine to 12 months. If you can do that, you're gonna be fine. Now, yeah, obviously shoot for two, or three years. And that's great. Providing promotion paths and planning career mapping and all of those things clearly articulated and transparent is gonna help, I think that's a great goal. But also, how can we be able to run our business if the average tenure was nine months? Solve that. And then we can also do retention.
Jaylyn Sanchez 13:52
And not take six months to ramp somebody up?
James Mackey 13:56
I do both and a lot of companies just don't get that. They're just focusing on retention. But they're not doing the stuff like what it sounds you guys are doing with approvals for onboarding. They're not mutually exclusive. But the conversation is so much more focused on retention, you know what I mean?
Jaylyn Sanchez 14:13
Yeah. And I would say to add to that, with today's recruiting market, there's a big shortage and a lot of talent areas right now and so you don't have that option anymore to get exactly what you need so that they can come in right off the bat and start producing right away. You do have to invest a little bit more nowadays. But it is like you said, we have to figure out how can we invest more in a short amount of time so that so if the tenure was only nine months, we can still be okay with just that nine-month tenure that we have from them.
I think a big piece of that as well was yes, the onboarding checklist, but this is something I've done for the first time, we have integrated kind of weird off-normal work in our training schedules. So instead of a person coming in and starting their first day on Monday morning at 8 am, we have them start from 3 pm. And they go till 6 or something like that. It's a little off but that way the hiring manager is truly devoted to them during that time and those hours because that's when they have the most availability and when they're most free to give them that dedicated, provided attention.
James Mackey 15:28
That's really interesting. Because if you think about it, 8 am on a Monday morning is the worst time for an executive or hiring manager to be like Oh shoot, I gotta do this, started the call with this person, and then I have all these other stuff.
Jaylyn Sanchez 15:41
Mondays are the worst in general.
James Mackey 15:45
If you're in any position where you're managing a team, it's just a total storm. Yes.
Jaylyn Sanchez 15:53
Yeah, having those off hours, we've actually found to be a little more beneficial, just because our managers are now more dedicated. So now the actual employee that we just brought in feels like, oh, wow, I'm learning so much. And I'm gaining so much attention and getting everything I need. But now that which maybe would have taken two to three weeks of 1 hour to 2 hour calls a day here and there was just banged out in a week, just because we changed the schedule of what they started for, just for that one week.
James Mackey 16:23
Yeah. And then you don't have new hires, just sitting around going - Okay well, what do I do between this call and the next one and three hours, right?
Jaylyn Sanchez 16:29
And they're just literally just twiddling their thumbs like, well, this is fine getting paid to do nothing?
James Mackey 16:36
Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, if I'm not doing it, I'd rather just have everything locked together in three, or four hours. And then I think the way that we're doing it right now, I'm turning around because I'm a little bit more detached now. But we did a lot of recording, video recordings, and process docs. So when we were onboarding people, we just start hitting record, and then using those videos and then plugging them in and giving people access to that when they start. So I think it's like a three-hour block of self-learning through videos and process, and then they meet with the hiring manager for 30 to 45 minutes after that.
Then they ask just follow-up questions. And we don't have to repeat the same stuff for the same questions. And then the same thing in the afternoon, it's another block of a couple of hours. Then they have an opportunity to ask to follow up questions. So we're trying to do that to make it less of a heavy lift for our hiring managers and then also just a better experience for new hires, where they're not scrambling for people's availability, we only have to schedule two meetings a day, versus scheduling a bunch of stuff, every different training. It's helped really.
Jaylyn Sanchez 17:48
For sure, I'm trying to think here. I mean, there was actually a particular case where that actually happened. And that's why we implemented the whole thing. Hey, first-week training is a little off-schedule. Because especially in a startup you got to do what works for you as a company. So if all your managers are busy on Mondays through Thursdays from 8 to 9, well, then it looks like your new starts probably shouldn't start until 10. And maybe for that first week until they get a little acclimated with how your company works and why it's not that we don't want to dedicate time or attention to you. It's that we literally don't have the time to do it right now but we still prioritize you so here's the way we can make it work.
So I do think and again, being my first time in a true startup like this, it's trial and error. The first solution you bring to the table may not be the right one, it may not ever be the right one. It's just being patient, for me at least, and being able to understand changes and being able to pivot quickly. That was the hardest thing for me and being a TA. I feel like we get our schedules and we know exactly what we're doing and we just keep going in, sending those candidates out and doing those submissions and filling those positions.
But when it comes to more of the granular things, specifically onboarding and retention, there's a lot you can do to spice it up. And like you said, the recordings, I think that's the great thing. We're right now, creating a resource bank. So same thing for our employees, like hey, so that is one of the things we shoot out to them that first week before they start - hey, here's a resource bank, take a look around so that they can come to the onboarding call with some questions and not just your basic - Oh, how's your 401k work? Ask us for more detailed things.
James Mackey 19:42
That doesn't have to be a conversation. That's what I learned too. There's a lot of onboarding stuff that if somebody's just repeating themselves consistently on a call, that stuff should be recorded over text. There's no reason to have a hiring manager making a high salary just waste it their time and the payroll of the new hires' time just on pointless meetings. I prefer the follow-up question style. It's like - Alright, we're gonna give you this information in bite-sized chunks.
And then you can ask us follow-up questions as opposed to us repeating this information that we just didn't need to discuss verbally live. So yeah, that was super helpful. And so what do you in terms of retention? What do you guys do in terms of maybe performance reviews? Or career mapping or promotion paths? How robust is it because you guys are still pretty early stage, so we are, it makes sense if you don't have all that completely mapped out? I'm just curious where you're at is a 64-person company right now.
Jaylyn Sanchez 20:40
Yeah. Career pathing is something that we've really been diving into recently with each individual department, speaking with hiring managers, on a call with the CEO, and CFO - what are we seeing? Or what is the path and career plan for our company first, let's see that for the next year. What are we looking at? And then from there diving into each position. So that is still ongoing. But in regards to performance reviews as well, because when I started, I think I was our 18th hire so a lot of those first performance reviews will be happening this coming January.
We haven't really dived into it just yet but we are starting to have those conversations of - Hey, guys, we will have these performance reviews, there's no KPIs, we have not initiated KPIs around anything yet. Again, because everybody's just moving at 1000 miles an hour. So for us, it's more this past year in the company, I can for sure say it has been off of retention, building the quality relationships with our employees, letting them know - Hey, we're in the trenches with you, you're not alone, we understand that this is a lot of work. And we do ask a lot from you.
I feel where our performance reviews are going to go is more based on just the work, the true work that they've done, right? We haven't measured it on any base, but being transparent with them and showing them here's where our company is, here's where you were, and we were when you started. And now look. So it's going to be more comparison, like any review would be, but more so just on a whole of what their work style and what their work has provided for the company in general.
Now, going into this next year, we have already started implementing those KPIs so that they are ready for that. But this year, it's definitely going to be different. I feel like compared to a lot of other companies that aren't startups, maybe annual reviews, how they're gonna work. So it's a little different for sure.
James Mackey 22:48
Yeah. And I totally get that. A lot of times I will recommend quarterly performance reviews. It's just a faster feedback loop. It's better for the employees, I think. And then also it helps the managers keep a pulse on performance more closely, and ensures that if performance adjustments need to be made, they're made quickly. And also, this isn't a fun conversation necessarily but the reality is also that you need to document this if you have issues.
You need documentation and quarterly documentation is better so if somebody isn't performing, you can give them a heads up, and then next quarter, if it's not better you can let them go. You're less likely to have to deal with liability or potential assurance, sometimes you fire somebody due to performance and they don't want to take ownership of that. It's good to have like documentation of those things.
Jaylyn Sanchez 23:42
I would say being as small as we are right now we don't do quarterly check-ins or reviews. But our managers, we do require them to no more than or don't go any longer than a two week period. So you need to either have a team meeting cadence every two weeks. But the majority of our leaders actually have them at least once a week, some of our leaders talk to their people every single day. That's amazing. And so right now, as we get bigger, we won't be able to have those things. As your teams get larger, you can't talk to 20 people, your whole day would be taken up, right? You're not doing anything now.
So for right now, that's what's working for us. That's where we're catching those gaps. That's when, okay, hey, so we are seeing something consistent. We've talked to them for the past two weeks, nothing's changed. So let's engage with HR and see what we need to do. Even as a small company, it's even harder to have those questions or those conversations because our hands are really tied into every single piece and we know everybody on a real personal level.
You're not just a number anymore. But already we've had to have conversations about performances or maybe attendance, especially when you're on a flex PTO schedule that's even harder, right? They're like, Oh, I thought I could just have it all. And again, that's what works for us right now, at the size we're at those bi-weekly at the minimum are what you need to have. But usually, they talk to them every day, or at least once a week and I feel as long as you're creating that communication, I don't think there's such a thing as over-communicating with your employees. As long as that open door is there, you'll be able to catch these things as they come and be able to process them as they come as well.
James Mackey 25:36
For sure, yeah, for us we don't need quarterly because pretty much our largest department is delivery. Recruiters that we have embedded at clients, and so we're meeting with their manager weekly. We go through progress and if there's a performance issue, we're not going to wait till any type of quarterly thing. We bring it up right then, we need to make XYZ adjustment. And we have a several-step process where it's - okay, if it's not fixed the first time, we talked about the second time, the third time, and then ultimately, there's a process right? You don't have to go there often but we have a defined process for that which is important. If it's cool I'd like to shift gears a little bit and I just wanted to talk a little bit more about Prolucent. Can you tell me more about the gap that you're filling in terms of the platform and why your team was able to thrive and take advantage of some of the market conditions we were experiencing in 2007?
Jaylyn Sanchez 26:28
Of course. So Prolucent health, the product we have created acts as a job board for consumers. We attract people through different marketing tools to come and apply for the jobs, it's called Liquid Compass. What we host them on. That's our kind of database warehouse. And those are jobs nationwide, for any position underneath an MD level. Then on the back end, it acts like an applicant tracking system.
Employers can go in and see a candidate's profile, reject them, send them messages, accept them, schedule meetings, and so on and so forth. The gap we're seeing is that contingent labor is huge in the healthcare industry. And it's never going to go away, there's always going to be a need for it. Regardless, people are always going to have maternity leave, sick leave vacation time, and so on and so forth.
The issue is that these same people that hospitals were hiring on the contingent side, were trying to apply for full-time roles but the technology, the recruiting technology that the hospitals have just wasn't up to speed, it was taking 30 minutes, 45 minutes to just do one application for a nurse. And halfway through, they just wipe their hands clean. They're like, I'm not doing this. So that's what our product does, it automates and streamlines specifically for the hospital needs of those frontline workers. So now they're not missing out on these full-time candidates and now they're not having to go to a staffing agency to pay double the price for that one person only for a 13-week contract.
James Mackey 28:02
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Jaylyn Sanchez 28:04
So again, contingent labor - not going anywhere, we understand that. But we're definitely trying to somewhat regulate the hospitals and what their staff with because also if they're staffed with contingent labor, their patient care status goes down. Then they get rejected for big cases or anything like that, right? Because you just have people on rotating contracts in and out, they're not really invested in company morals and things like that. So having full-time permanent roles with over 50% of that stuff in your hospital is going to be the best bet for you and for the people you're taking care of.
James Mackey 28:42
What's the latest with healthcare recruitment in general, is demand starting to come back down? Or is it staying pretty consistent with where it was a year or two ago? What trends are you seeing out there right now?
Jaylyn Sanchez 28:57
I feel like in healthcare, it's hard to find a trend, right? Because if there's a disaster, and for instance, the disaster just happened in Florida, people are begging for others to go over there, right? They're like, please we need all the help we can get. So obviously there's a spike in that region because they need all the help they can get right now. But I would say because of COVID there's been a drop and contingent labor hospitals don't need it as much as they used to, but they have so many part-time staff or contingent laborers still because of the overflow from COVID that they thought they would need.
That's what the trend is right now, it's kind of dispersing those getting back to somewhat normal. So it's nothing crazy high skyrocketing numbers like we did when there was COVID, it's definitely started to level out a little bit but of course, in those certain areas, you have those disasters where it spikes again, but I would say across the board is pretty much leveled out for the most part. The people are starting to be burnt out from what COVID caused. That's another drop.
James Mackey 30:06
Right, right. And so your solution is only for hospitals do you think? Is there an opportunity to expand beyond that? Or is your team just staying laser-focused on solving for that exact buyer persona?
Jaylyn Sanchez 30:20
I would say personally, apart from realism would say that, yeah, there's definitely a need for the technology that we have across many of our other healthcare industries. Such as dermatology, dentistry, and so on and so forth. They have issues finding positions for themselves. But I think right now, the biggest gap was hospitals, it was just directly having individuals in those hospitals, not on contingent labor, not on contracts, being full-time permanent employees. Yeah, so that is where the biggest gap was. And again, even before COVID, and then COVID hit and it really created it even more.
That's where I think they're staying in, a lot of these hospitals are gonna take them a long time to recoup from what COVID has done. And we're not a quick fix. We are your long-term solution. This is something that we can't promise you are going to change in the next year but our goal is to definitely get it back to somewhat regular by the end of the year and then continue to help you manage that process and help you manage your third party vendors and understand what now your hospital really needs. Or do we need to put out a full-time need instead?
Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Again, great timing. Right before COVID, obviously, execution is critical and that's a big part of the success. But yeah, I mean, the timing is pretty good.
It was on our side for sure. Yeah.
James Mackey 31:55
For sure. Good time to be in healthcare tech.
Jaylyn Sanchez 31:58
But yeah, it's pretty great. I mean, our CEO, his mom was a nurse. And then we have some extremely amazing executive nurses on our board. And it's a very mission-driven company. I think that's the other reason why we're sticking to a hospital. It's kind of, stick to what you know, that's how I see it.
James Mackey 32:17
If it's working and you're growing and thriving, stay focused and do fewer things really well. The more experience I get, the more I'm - Okay, I don't want to do 10 things. I just want to crush it at maybe 2 or 3. It makes it easier to scale too. Complexity is the enemy of scale, the more simple you can make your solution, if there's a big enough addressable market, the easier is going to be to scale that solution. So I'm all with you on that. But yeah, this is this has been a ton of fun. We're coming up on time here. So Jaylyn, I just want to say thank you so much for joining us today! If people want to follow you or engage with you online. How can they find you?
Yeah, I would definitely say you can find me on LinkedIn. I am Jaylyn Sanchez on LinkedIn. Again, Talent Acquisition Lead with Prolucent Health. It looks like Proluctant but it's Prolucent haha.
All right, good stuff. Good stuff. Thanks for coming on today.
Jaylyn Sanchez 33:16
Yes, I appreciate it. This was a lot of fun.
James Mackey 33:18
Yeah, this was a lot of fun and for everybody tuning in, thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Take care!